Episode Introduction

SPEAKER_00 0:13

Alright, everyone, welcome back to Tethered. I am your host, Joey Morales, and thank you so much for tuning in to this episode. And so in Tethered, we help followers of Jesus be deeply intentionally connected to him every single day. And so, in this season, we are just discussing the attributes of God. And so if you listened to the previous episode with my friend Josiah Franklin, hopefully that encouraged you about learning about the sovereignty of God. And so, but today's episode is actually gonna accompany that episode to some extent, and I think you would be encouraged by it. And so if you haven't listened to that episode, you can go ahead and click on the link in this description right up here. And so, um, yeah, we'll be excited to share that with you. So, but anyways, I mentioned on the last episode that we were gonna be talking about an attribute of God that is hard to discuss, but I think it's necessary, which is the wrath of God. And so with that, I invited somebody who if I had on the podcast a couple other times, and so you'll get to actually see him on video for the very first time. And so, with that, I want to welcome back my friend Jacob Ward.

Welcome back Jacob Ward!

SPEAKER_00 1:23

Hey Jerry, thanks for having me. Absolutely, man. Thank you for willing to come back on. Absolutely. That's a joy. Yeah, so Jacob, now that you are back on Tether, why don't you go ahead and just update us on how life has been for you since we last chatted on the podcast?

SPEAKER_03 1:36

So I know that my last episode was with Jessica. Has was Piper born yet? Do you remember? No, she wasn't. Okay, so since the last episode, then I've had two or have have one kid born, one on the way. So I have two kids named Um The first one's named Piper. That's awesome. So she's a girl. We're gonna find out the next one in a couple weeks. Um I have switched jobs, so I'm working at Midwestern Baptist Theological Seminary. I work for financial services as the accountant now, and I'm taking classes there. So that's awesome. Two kids start seminary working a new job.

SPEAKER_00 2:09

That's awesome, brother.

SPEAKER_03 2:10

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 2:11

We're actually recording from his apartment here on the Midwestern campus here in early August. And so, yeah, brother, we're excited to have you back on the podcast, and so thankful that you shared about your life updates. And so it's been encouraging just to even like watch you be a father since we've like last recorded on the podcast. So it's been sweet. Yeah,

Describing God's wrath

SPEAKER_00 2:31

but with that, let's just jump right on in. And so, you know, we are discussing the attributes of God, like I mentioned, uh Jacob in the introduction. And so today's attribute is gonna be a tough one, but I think it's necessary to talk about this attribute. Yeah, and so with that, let's go ahead and just you know, let me ask you this question to start out. What does the word wrath mean? How would you describe that word?

SPEAKER_03 2:58

Yeah, and right before I hop in, I just want to echo what you're saying, Joey. Is like this is a somber topic, right? Like this can be hard to listen to, but because scripture speaks about it, we can joyfully talk about it and learn who God is. So in Nahum 1, 2, and we're gonna go into that later, but the Bible describes God is wrathful. So that word means anger or hot displeasure, fiercely heat. One lexicon even put it as this it denotes burning heat expressed as wrath, rage, jealousy, or even snake venom, always conveying an intense, potentially destructive force. So, an example of that from scripture, because like sometimes words are just so abstract, I need examples, is from the book of Deuteronomy, chapter 9. Moses was describing how the Lord felt with Israel's sin of the golden calf. So that's when Moses was up getting the Ten Commandments, and Aaron and Israel made its own idol and said, This is the God who delivers from Egypt. And this is what Moses described it as in verse 19. For I was afraid of the anger and hot displeasure or wrath that the Lord bore against you. So he was ready to destroy you. So God when we say wrath, we're meaning who is God by his nature. But let's contrast that with Deuteronomy 9 22, which talks about what it means for God to be wrathful. At Terabeth, also at Manasseh, and Corboth Hatah, hard words pronounce, you provoke the Lord to wrath. This is referring to God's just response to the people's complaining for meat, water, or refusal to enter into the promised land. This difference is described in one lexicon as wrath portrays the surge of anger that rises swiftly and demands responses, whether in righteous indignation or sinful irritation. Unlike the related noun for wrath, that depicts a settled disposition. So just put it in normal terms, when we speak of the wrath of God as an attribute, we mean that God's holy and just displeasure towards sin, his disposition, but that is outworked in judging sin against God. So who he is as wrathful leads to justice. One last quote John MacArthur defines the wrath of God as this God's opposition to and hatred of evil, together with his intention to punish it.

SPEAKER_00 5:53

That's a good way of describing it. I love the scripture you use from Deuteronomy. Moses was just given the Ten Commandments and all of these laws. Yeah. The first and foremost law being that you shall have no other gods before me. Yes. And what is the first thing that the Israelites are doing when Moses gets down from that mountain? Is that they're worshipping a golden calf. Yeah. And that deserves punishment. They deliberately disobeyed God.

SPEAKER_03 6:22

Yeah, you're exactly right. And just like so shocking because it's days after they were delivered. Yeah. So how quickly are we to forget God's salvation that his wrath helps us remember it and not drift to other idols?

SPEAKER_00 6:35

Yeah. I mean, I even think about another story in the book of Numbers, the Korah. I mean, he was very disobedient. Yeah. And he was judged for it by having like the ground beneath him like open up and swallow him up. That's the Lord executing justice. Absolutely. And so, which I know when

Why God's wrath is important to understand

SPEAKER_00 6:54

you're hearing that, learn your listeners, like, well, why does a good God, a good loving God, do that? And so, why don't we talk about that, Jacob? So, why is this attribute of God important for someone to understand?

SPEAKER_03 7:08

Yeah. As um we think about that, I have three reasons why it could be important. One is that it actually encourages you, listener, towards holiness. For example, Jesus said in Matthew 7, verses 29 through 30, if your right eye causes you to sin, tear it out and throw it away. For it is better that you lose one of your members than the your whole body be thrown into hell. And if your right hand causes you to sin, cut it off and throw it away. For it is better that you lose one of your members than your whole body go to hell. The reality of God's wrath should motivates us to make radical choices of holiness. And like Joey, I'm sure you know this, but discipling college students, like they don't take sin seriously. They will commit sexual sin, they'll be hiding jealousy or anger, and they're not cutting off their sin. And I think one reason for that is they don't actually think God is wrathful. They don't really think that's the path to hell. We need to remember God's hatred and displeasure towards sin, or we will not be holy. Secondly, it gives us strength to love those who hate us. Romans twelve verses nineteen through twenty-one says To the contrary, if your enemy is hungry, feed him. If he is thirsty, give him something to drink, for by so doing you will heap burning coals on his head. Do not overcome evil um but with evil, but overcome evil with good. This truth that God is the judge, he is the avenger of sin, he's wrathful towards sin makes it we we don't have to be wrathful for sin done to us.

SPEAKER_00 9:07

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 9:07

We don't have to protect ourselves. God sees the injustice done to you and to me, and he will judge it, either on Christ or on us. So we are free then to not fight sin with sin, but fight sin with love. Trusting that that can change a heart by preaching the gospel, and if not, God will take care of it. And thirdly, and we'll get into this a lot more throughout this um podcast, but it demonstrates the gospel. First Thessalonians 1 10 says, and to wait for his son from heaven, whom he raised from the dead, Jesus who delivers us from the wrath to come. Jesus delivers us from the wrath to come. Essentially, to sum it up, a right understanding is God as wrath, wrathful, is fundamental to the Christian life. His wrath causes us to appreciate the gospel and motivates us to respond in holiness and to equips us to live in an unjust world because we can be confident that God will make justice happen.

SPEAKER_00 10:20

Those are all really good points, Jacob. Thank you for sharing those. It's interesting you bring up the example of like whenever you're discipling somebody, um it's just so important to highlight what sin can do to somebody, especially when you're sharing the gospel with somebody. Because sin literally taints us before a holy God. And so I just think about uh a book I've been reading called Deeper by Dane Ortland. Yeah, and I read a chapter about despair that being in despair over your sin is actually a healthy practice. You might be asking, like, how is that a healthy thing to practice? We have to constantly be reminding ourselves of how destructive sin is and just the damage it can cause. And if you're like struggling with sin and continue to ri like think about um that God isn't good, maybe you have to really examine how horrible your sin can be. Yeah. And think about what sin can do if you don't turn from it. Like it like you are due to the wrath of God. Yep.

SPEAKER_03 11:33

Like apart from Christ. I like what you hinted at was the RC Sproul quote of like, we tend to have either a too low view of God or too high view of man. Right. So we don't want to despair of our sins because we think too highly of ourselves. We think too lowly of God, and I think God's wrath, him as wrathful of sin, and we being sinners, really causes us to break so we can be tasting Christ. Um Tom are Thomas Brooks and his book, Doctrine of Repentance, Watson, Thomas Watson, sorry. He says, Till sin be bitter, Christ will never be sweet. And that's exactly what you're talking about.

SPEAKER_00 12:16

Amen. Yeah, thank you for sharing that, brother. So you've already shared some scripture,

Other Scripture references to show that God is wrathful

SPEAKER_00 12:22

um, but I'm just curious to know, like, what are some other scripture references to show that God is wrathful?

SPEAKER_03 12:29

So I think it'll be helpful to look at two. One in the Old Testament and one in the New Testament. The reason why both is there's this wrong assumption in a lot of believers that the God of the Bible in the Old Testament is wrathful and the God in New Testament is love. Or that the Father is wrathful, but not the Son. And so I just want to show two that kind of pushes up against that view because that is really wrong. It's the same God in both.

SPEAKER_00 13:00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 13:00

So we'll start in Nahum chapter one, one through seven. The context of this, this is to the Assyrian people. If you remember Jonah, he went a hundred years before the book of Nahum and called on them to repent because God's wrath is coming. And they did repent, but a hundred years later, they had forgotten their God. And the one true God, and they have embraced sin, and they have they were known for their wickedness towards other nations, particularly Israel. So God's wrath here will bring hope to Israel. The Lord is a jealous and avenging God. The Lord is avenging and wrathful. The Lord takes vengeance on his adversaries and keeps wrath for his enemies. The Lord is slow to anger and great in power, and the Lord will by no means clear the guilty. His wrath is in the whirlwind and storm, and the clouds are dust of his feet. He rebukes the sea and makes it dry. He dries up all the rivers, Bashan and Carmel wither, the bloom of Lebanon withers, the mountains quake before him, the hills melt, the earth are heaves before him, the world and all who dwell in it. Who can stand before his ignition? Who can endure the heat of his anger? His wrath is poured out like fire, and their rocks are broken into pieces by him. The Lord is good, a stronghold in the day of trouble. He knows those who take refuge in him. We should believe in the Bible that God is love. The Bible says that, and almost I don't know a single Christian doesn't claim God is love. But oftentimes we do think that God is love, but he only acts wrathfully. The Bible, though, is clear that by his very nature, he is wrathful. Nahim 1-2. The Lord is avenging and wrathful. He is his attributes. He is by his very nature the God who is opposed to all sin, all rebellion, and false worship. Notice in that verse 6 that none of us can stand before his wrath. Therefore, in light of his wrath, we're to run to him for refuge. And so that is the beauty of one of the truths of God's wrath in scripture. He is by nature wrathful. So he's opposed to sin because he loves his goodness. But the problem is none of us are righteous. Yeah. And so all of us should fear God's wrath. Therefore, run to him for refuge. The other text is Romans chapter one. So Romans is written by the Apostle Paul, and it is known for him declaring what is the gospel. Chapters 1 through 11 is him defining for us what does the gospel mean. Chapters 12 through 16 is how are we to live in light of the gospel. So in verse starting in verse 15, we'll see Paul's heart to preach the gospel, but its connection to God's wrath. So he says, So I'm eager to preach the gospel to you, also who are in Rome. For I am not ashamed of the gospel, for it's the power of God for salvation to everyone who believes, to the Jew first, and also to the Greek. For in it the righteousness of God is revealed, from faith for faith, as is written, the righteous shall live by faith. Now, we oftentimes we stop there. God's righteousness is revealed, we are saved by faith, his salvation from our sin, and we stop. And it sounds great. And like that is we could John Piper preached like six sermons on those two verses, six and seventeen. It doesn't surprise me. Like legitimately, you can get much gold from it, but we can't stop there because of verse 18. It says the word for. So we we talked about a couple times on this podcast, like how to go deeper in God's word, right? One tip is if you see the word for, it's a supporting the claim that just came. So righteous shall live by faith. For what reason do the righteous live by faith? The wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who by their unrighteousness suppress the truth. For what can be known about God is plain to them because God has shown it to them, for his invisible attributes, namely his eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly perceived ever since the creation of the world, and the things that have been made, so they are without excuse. For although they knew God, they did not honor him as God and give thanks to him, but they became futile in their thinking, and their foolish hearts were darkened. Claiming to be wise, they became fools, and it goes on. Now bear in mind, what do we learn about God's wrath? One, it explains the need for salvation. It shows us why we need to be saved by faith. Because we're unrighteous. We deserve God's wrath. God's wrath teaches us that everything that can be known about God is enough to judge us in our sin. Because what is plain about God is He exists, and yet we worship the created thing rather than the Creator. So God will judge every single person, even if they haven't heard the gospel, for their sins, because they don't worship him. People don't want God.

SPEAKER_00 19:13

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 19:14

So God's wrath is poured out on their rebellion of what they do know about him. That's why we need a better word, verses 16. The gospel. Salvation makes sense only if you know God as wrathful, or we wouldn't need to to be saved.

SPEAKER_00 19:34

Those are wonderful verses he shared there. It just showcases that God is serious about sin. Like we do tend to worship created things rather than the creator himself, how easy it is to do that. I just think about this example, um you know, just like analogy here, like if someone commits a crime, they're due justice. And that person deserves to be punished by being sent to prison. They might get the death penalty depending on the severity of their crime. It would be unloving just to let them go. Yeah. Yeah. They deserve to be judged because they committed an act that violated a standard.

SPEAKER_03 20:22

Yeah. I was um I had a class assignment where I had to go out evangelizing, and w so I went down to the river market in Kansas City with a church member, and this guy said essentially that he didn't like the claims of morality of the Bible. And I told him, it doesn't matter how you feel. He's the creator, he's the judge, he determines what is right and wrong. And I think oftentimes like we we bend down God's rules, like, oh, God won't be wrathful towards me because I'm a good person, or I'm this, and it's like we we hold up ourselves so high, and his wrath humbles us.

SPEAKER_00 21:06

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 21:06

And like we are not as good as we think we are, and we don't have the right. So that courtroom analogy, that's the connection I'm making. It's just like we think we'll be okay. Oh, we just we didn't commit a crime, we just kind of told a white lie, right? Like, God's gonna be okay with me. We're we're pals. It's like, no, no, no, no. You have broken your creator's purpose for your life. You have not only not been the rules, you've completely rejected him as God. Yeah. That has consequences, and his wrath shows it.

SPEAKER_00 21:40

Exactly. Yeah, absolutely. I agree with you. Thank you for sharing that. Um so

Explain why these Scriptures are important

SPEAKER_00 21:47

let me ask you this question, then. Um maybe you've already sort of explained these verses. If you had any more details about those verses, maybe share with the listener. Why God's wrath is important but also comforting.

SPEAKER_03 22:07

Yeah. Well, one Joey, I just want to thank you for how you titled this series. Like you said, God is dot dot dot, right? Yeah. Well, that's significant because we sometimes view God as parts. Yeah. Not this is who he is. And so it's important because it's not just only how God acts, this is his character we're talking about. This is who God is by nature. And for us to not care about his wrath, which is revealed in the Old and New Testament, is demonstrating we don't love the God of the Bible. Like if we do not believe this, we do not believe in the God of Christianity. The gospel doesn't make sense to anyone if we don't know this. If we want people to hear the gospel and believe it, and we say Jesus loves you, he died for you, you can be in heaven with him if you believe. That makes no sense.

SPEAKER_00 23:03

Yeah, exactly.

SPEAKER_03 23:03

Apart from God's wrath. It's important because it makes the gospel knowable. It makes the gospel make sense. But it's also important for you, listener, if you're not a Christian, you should feel no comfort by God's wrath. He is coming to judge you for your sin. As we read in Romans 1, like you have rejected his image to worship yourself, your iPhone, or some other thing like a relationship over God. And that will not you have found that is not satisfying to you because you're rejecting his path for flourishing. And it's leading to a Psalm 16 would say, sorrow upon sorrow. But there is hope for you. Nahum calls you to find refuge in the Lord. Christ offers you salvation. So this is important. Because we want you to be saved. Yeah. For the Christian, there is comfort for you. Because God's wrath has not been poured out on you, and it never will. God's wrath is poured out on Christ. Romans 8:1, there's no condemnation for those in Christ Jesus. So we do not need to fear it. And now we can be comforted because God's wrath will be poured out on those who commit injustice against us. If I can get serious for a moment, sure. I've known many women who have been taken advantage of by men in very gross ways. And Nahom was a comfort to them. Because God promises not to let that sin go unnoticed. Yeah. This person got away with it. The sin is not going to be unpunished. No, our God, either on this earth or the next, will punish sin. It will be poured out on Christ or on them. So we can take comfort in that. And it's also for me it's been comforting because of things like Planned Parenthood. Millions of babies have been killed. Yeah. Like if you really look up how many have been murdered, and just like nothing's happened. These people are not only not put to jail, they're celebrated. But God sees it. God will defend all life. Yeah. He will write all wrong. And that that is so comforting to me. So that that's the comfort I think Christians can find from God's wrath.

SPEAKER_00 26:22

Yeah. As soon as you talked about the Nahum passage, especially with the thing you shared about men taking advantage of women. I just think about this passage from Numbers. Some of you might be familiar with this, but if you're not, I want to read this to you because this is uh a thing. If you continue to persist in sin, this is what the word says. Um I'm gonna read it from the context. This is Moses, you know, telling the Israelites to prepare to cross the river Jordan when they, you know, take over the land of Israel. This is what it says. Numbers 3220. Moses replied to them, If you do this, if you arm yourselves for battle before the Lord, and every one of them every one of your armed men crosses the Jordan before the Lord until he has driven his enemies from his presence, and the land is subdued before the Lord, afterward you may return and be free from obligation to the Lord into Israel. And the land will belong to you as a possession before the Lord. But if ye don't do this, you will certainly sin against the Lord. Be sure your sin will catch up with you. Like if you knowingly sin, if you don't turn from it, it'll catch up with you. Either in this life or the next.

SPEAKER_03 27:47

Yeah, and like we're so cocky. Like, we just think we can go along, nothing's gonna happen to us. And like we we think, oh, that person didn't say anything, I'm okay. We don't take our sin seriously. Yeah and it's because we even as Christians, we don't take our sins seriously because we don't view God seriously with sin. And so, like, this is this is a hard subject, right? Like, God's wrath is difficult to talk about, and it we don't want to use language scripture dust. Like, we want to minimize sin. But sin doesn't minimize us, it will find you out. Sin will grow and it will be revealed.

SPEAKER_00 28:31

Yeah. Absolutely. Well, Jacob, let me ask you this question. Because I'm just thinking, how does the wrath of God

How God's wrath helps one abide in Jesus

SPEAKER_00 28:46

help us understand that he abides in us? I mean, think about a doctrine like the wrath of God. How can someone understand that that particular you know attribute of God helps them abide in the Lord and us in him?

SPEAKER_03 29:07

Just curious. So I know you asked that every time, so I I was thinking, how does that happen? And this was this is probably the hardest question, right? And I I found hope or help to answer that question in Nahum 1 7, right? If it's true that because God is wrathful wrathful, that we are to run to Him and find refuge, then God's wrath will cause you to desire to find refuge in Christ. Therefore, dear listener, run to Jesus because you will not experience the wrath but God's love. You will not want to remain apart from Christ, because that's where judgment is. But you won't want to abide in Christ, because that's where his love is known, and you will have no fear of God's wrath. Also, remember Jesus is coming again, and he's coming to bring relief to those who believe, and judgment on those who reject him. If you look at Second Thessalonians one, five through ten with me, this is evidence of righteous judgment of God, that you may be considered worthy of the kingdom of God, for which you are also suffering, says indeed God considers it just to repay with affliction those who afflict you, and to grant relief to you who are afflicted as well as to us, when the Lord Jesus is revealed from heaven with his mighty angels, in flaming fire, inflicting vengeance on those who do not know God and on those who do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus. They will suffer punishment of eternal destruction away from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of his might. When he comes on that day to be glorified in this his saints, and to be marveled at among all who believe, because of your testimony to you who believed. Notice a few things like right, those who are not abiding in Christ, when Christ comes back, they will experience eternal destruction away from the presence of Jesus. Those who trust in him, those who abide in him now, when we're suffering persecution from this world, it is hard, it is painful, it's not easy to be a Christian. But we continue to abide, be tethered to Jesus, because he is coming back, and he will bring relief to you, Christians. So press on into Jesus. Trust that he is coming, one to judge the wicked in wrath, but to bring relief to you.

SPEAKER_00 31:57

Yeah. For those who believe. Amen, brother. Thank you for sharing that. That's something that you know. I think it's important to just always be thinking about. Like Jesus is gonna come back someday. We should expect that. This is not our home. It's just not. Our home is in heaven, and we'll and we'll be there. If we're in Christ, we're guaranteed a place. Amen. And we should constantly think about that. That's where we're gonna be. But not only that, but also want others to be in that place too. And we do that by means of sharing the gospel. And so let me ask you this question as we begin to wrap up here. You kind of hinted at it all over the place during this episode, but where do we see the

The Gospel in God's wrath

SPEAKER_00 32:44

gospel in the wrath of God?

SPEAKER_03 32:46

Yeah, I definitely was trying to be a little bit even more hinting, right? Because we believe the gospel is the center of our life. We believe the gospel is the center of the Bible, the center of the Christian life, and it will be the center of knowing Him even with His wrath. James Hamilton has a really helpful quote in his book, God's Glory and Salvation Through Judgment, that really helped me see the gospel and judgment. He said, talking about the book of Proverbs, we see a clear statement that the exposure of the judgment that will fall on evildoers is meant to deliver people from that judgment, to take them through judgment to salvation. So if if you want to know salvation, you must know God is wrathful. Proverbs 14 27, he quotes saying, The fear of the Yahweh is the foundation of life, that one may turn away from the snares of death. Through the announcement of judgment, the simple are to be made wise unto the salvation for Yahweh's glory. So I would argue that the gospel makes no sense apart from God's wrath. God's wrath on sinners show our need for salvation, knowing that the extent of God's wrath makes the gospel beautiful, that he would still love his people. Yeah. So I just don't want to claim that. I want to show you that in scripture. Um so one last text I want to go to is Romans 5. For while we were still weak, at the right time, Christ died for the ungodly. For one would scarcely die for a righteous person, though perhaps for a good person, one would dare even to die. But God shows his love for us in this, while we were still sinners, Christ died for us. Since therefore we have now been justified by his blood, much more shall we be saved by him from the wrath of God. So where is the gospel in God's wrath? Well, we were made by God. He made us in his image, meaning we have value, worth, and dignity. We're made to reflect him and make him known. But we, as we read in Romans, rejected God. We sought after created things rather than the Almighty Creator. We deserve death. Yeah. We deserve eternal conscious torment and hell. We deserve God's wrath. Because rebels, as you talk about, Joey, some laws broken leads to execution. This is the infinite, holy, eternal God. So we've as you have talked about in so many of the other attributes of God, we've sinned against him. Yeah. We do deserve wrath. But while we were a weak, while we were enemies, Christ delivered us from the wrath of God. And I want to be really clear. This doesn't earn the Father's love. It says in verse 8, it shows, demonstrates, proves the Father's love for us. So the Father in His master plan in the gospel, he who is wrathful towards us, loves his people in spite of that, to send Christ to die and rise again so we can be accepted. And Christ not only died for us, he rose, is sent it and is mediating for you. So if you question, Christian, you are under still under God's wrath. Remember the gospel because Christ is still advocating for you. Yeah. You are accepted.

SPEAKER_00 36:30

Amen, brother. Amen. Thank you for sharing that. That is such an encouragement to think about that we are deserving of God's wrath, but that is what makes the gospel so beautiful. Is that Christ Himself took on the sin, the punishment of sin that we deserve, which is God's wrath. And he took it on himself, and he gave us his righteousness because of that. That's an that's an encouragement for sure. Christ is amazing. And so I want to read from Hebrews chapter 9, 15, because this is what it made me think about when you shared that. So this is what it says. I'm going to read a few verses here. Because I think this piggies back off really well what you just said. Therefore, he being Jesus is the mediator of a new covenant, so that those who uh are called might receive the promise of the eternal inheritance, because a death has taken place for redemption from the transgressions committed under the first covenant. Where the will exists, the death of the one who made it must be established. For a will is valid only when people die, since it is never in effect while the one who made made it is living. That is why even the first covenant was inaugurated with blood. For when every command had been proclaimed by Moses to all the people according to the law, he took it the blood of calves and goats, along with water, scarlet wool, and hyssop, and sprinkled the scroll itself in the people, saying, This is the blood of the covenant that God has ordained from you. In the same way, he sprinkled the tabernacle and all the articles of worship with blood. According to the law, almost everything is purified with blood, and without the shedding of blood, there is no forgiveness. I know that was a lot to read, and you know, you might have, you know, never heard of anything. I would encourage you to read the book of Hebrews. It's really an encouragement, but essentially what that whole passage is saying is Jesus Himself has, you know, become what's called propreciation for our sin. He took on the wrath of God himself. He atoned for our sin. Yeah. And so and he made us clean by his blood, because his blood was literally shed for the punishment of sin.

SPEAKER_03 38:51

Yeah. And you showed, Joey, a really good point from that scripture too, is like Christ took on the wrath of God for us. Like his death is literally taking on the cup of punishment. Like he like the animals had to die to take on the wrath to cover sin. His blood takes away our sin. Yeah. And so we really need to know God's wrath, or we don't appreciate what Christ did on that cross.

SPEAKER_00 39:17

Yeah. Exactly. Amen, brother. So to wrap up, let me ask you this final question here. What are some practical ways for a person to grow in their understanding of the wrath of God?

SPEAKER_03 39:30

Yeah, I have a

Practical ways to grow in understanding God's wrath

SPEAKER_03 39:31

few ways I think that could be helpful for someone to grow. One, just as you read your Bible, pay attention where you see the words like wrath, justice, vengeance. Because I have noticed like it's really easy to start reading your Bible, skip over that, get to God's love. Like God demonstrates his own love for us in this while we're still sinners. Focus on that verse, but not verse 9 that says he delivers us from the wrath of God, which means I was under God's wrath. So it's like really slow down. Read your Bible, pay attention. I would imagine, Joey, if if we're thinking about the audience, there's some people who are listening right now and they're just really struggling. You may not know how this doctrine makes sense. Maybe I just added confusion talking to you today. My encouragement for you to grow and understand God's wrath is to find a church that preaches through books of the Bible verse by verse, who makes Christ, the gospel you heard from Joey me, known every Sunday, and go up to one of those pastors and say, I'm struggling to believe in God's wrath and go talk to them. Because this is not to be done in isolation.

SPEAKER_01 40:45

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 40:46

Particularly doctrines like this, it's hard, it's heavy. Hell is real, and that's difficult to believe. Don't do this in isolation. There's so many YouTubers, so many podcasts, unlike Joey's, that are not focusing on Jesus, and you need a church community. Amen. So press in. Also, read helpful books. So I have a few recommendations. So for those beginners out there, this is a really small book. If you're on video, it's called Is Hell Real? It is a very short nine marks like question-answer thing. It's 43 pages, and these pages, they're really small, right, Joe. It it just goes over the difficult doctrine of hell, which necessitates to talk about the wrath of God, and answers why do we believe it? Why is it helpful for a Christian's life and a non-Christian? Kind of answers those bugging questions you had. Another resource, which is this one's a little bigger. So for those who are a lot more ambitious, is God's glory and salvation through judgment. This book goes through every book of the Bible. So if you're reading your Bible in a year, you can pick this up and just read the section what you're reading from the book. And it goes through every book showing how is God's wrath or judgment in there and how does it lead us to appreciate Jesus as Savior. And then the last one I would recommend to you is kind of the medium-sized book. It's Come Lord Jesus by John Piper. This book is just so helpful because it's not just like here are all the end times charts, things like that. No, no, no. The Bible says, Do you love his appearing? It goes over that, and like we read in 1 Thessalonians, his appearing means the wrath of God. So he has a chapter like Jesus delivers us from the wrath of Jesus, right? So he has whole chapters dealing with God's wrath and his second coming. So those would be like some resources, but also if if you're just like, okay, all this just doesn't sound real. I just want me and Jesus. Jesus spoke about hell more than anyone else, more about God's wrath than anyone else. So just really pay attention to Jesus' words in the Bible reading and see how he talks about wrath.

SPEAKER_00 43:00

Yeah. Well, brother, thank you for sharing those practical ways on how to grow in your understanding of the wrath of God. I've mentioned this earlier, I'll share one real quick. I mentioned this earlier. But just thinking about how broken we are, but yet using that to springboard you into just embracing Christ. I think it's a helpful practice to do. Now it doesn't mean you should stay in despair. That would be unhealthy. But using that to just showcase, like, wow, I have a wonderful Savior who loves me, and He's my Lord, He's my King, He's my Father who loves me because of Christ. And so it's a healthy thing to reflect on how sinful we can be.

SPEAKER_03 43:49

One scriptural example that actually our pastor Jared Wilson, who is also a famous author, Christian author, uses Nehemiah 8 to show that. So they read the law to the whole people and they see their sin and they start weeping over their sin. And Nehemiah then says, take heart and comfort. Yeah. And they leave rejoicing. But rejoicing is found in the weeping over seeing our sins, the light of a holy God.

SPEAKER_00 44:19

Yeah. And it's a healthy thing to do too, because it also reminds you of the promise that God is going to present you holy and blameless. One of my favorite verses is Colossians 1 21 22, which says, And you who were once alienated, hostile in mind, doing evil deeds, he has now reconciled you by his body of flesh. By his death in order to present you holy and blameless and above reproach. That is such a beautiful truth. Like we have to be reminded, like we were once these saints. But now, because of Christ, we are his beloved children, his saints that are forever gonna be with him. And so, yeah, thank you, Jacob, for willing to share those practical ways on how to grow in the understanding of the wrath of God. But with that, that pretty much wraps up the episode. Do you have any final thoughts that you want to share with the viewer, the listener? Sorry, Jerry, I'm long-winded.

SPEAKER_03 45:19

I have two thoughts about one

Final thoughts

SPEAKER_03 45:22

is we talked about how God's wrath gives comfort to believers for injustice. I just want to caution our heart postures. Remember 2 Peter 3:9. The Lord is not slow to fulfill his promises as some count slowness, but is patient towards you, not wishing that any should perish, but that all should reach repentance. Our goal should never be, I want that person to burn and hell for what they did to me. Yeah. Our goal is to I want to love them like Christ loved me. Be patient towards them that they might repent and become a brother rather than rejected and burning in hell. Like Paul is a great example, right? Like he was saved, someone that used to kill Christians became a brother, and we we read he wrote most of the New Testament. So we should wish that none would perish, but take heart that he does. And lastly, remember that God's wrath is not on any believer. You can take heart that his wrath will never be poured out on you because it was on Christ. Amen.

SPEAKER_00 46:35

So really hold on to that. Amen. Thank you, brother, for sharing that. That's really encouraging. And so thank you again for willing to come on to the episode today. We were so blessed to hear about just the wrath of God. It's just an important thing, very heavy, but essential for the Christian.

SPEAKER_03 46:52

Well, thank you, Joey, for all that you do. I think these are important conversations and you do a very faithful job. And so I'm sure your listeners are very blessed to have you as someone they listen to.

SPEAKER_00 47:02

Yeah, I appreciate that. Thank you so much. It means a lot. Well, if you're watching this, thank you so much again for tuning into Tethered. We're so glad to have you on. And so for the next episode, we are gonna be bringing

Episode Conclusion

SPEAKER_00 47:15

our a friend of mine that lives in St. Louis, Missouri, and he's gonna be talking about the goodness of God. And so stay tuned for that episode. And so, reminder for anyone who's been watching for some time or listening, we are available on these platforms. So if you're watching us on video, YouTube, Apple Podcasts, Spotify, if you're listening, we are on Amazon Music, Pocket Cast, and more. And so, like this episode if you enjoyed it. Please go ahead and share with your friends, anybody that listens to podcasts, and so it really we would really appreciate that. And so, thank you again for tuning in to Tethered. God bless, have a wonderful day, and we will see you next time.