Episode Intro

SPEAKER_02 0:13

Alrighty, what is up everybody? It has been a while since an episode has been published. So, welcome, welcome. We're glad to be back. And so, for those who are new, welcome to Tethered, where we help followers of Jesus be deeply intentionally connected to him every single day. So, if you're new to this podcast, you might be wondering like, what is this podcast all about? So, this word tethered, it simply means to be connected to or to remain or to be tied to. Because Jesus abides in his people first and foremost, we are called to abide in him. Because apart from him, we can do nothing. Whether that's serving him or living for him, in our everyday lives, we are called to be tethered to him because he is first tethered to us. And so on this podcast, we share the gospel. The good news that God saves sinners from his wrath in order to bring sinners to redemption from eternity in hell to eternal life forever with him. And so, and that includes now. And so we also share about being how being tethered to Jesus helps followers of Jesus in everyday situations, like your career, your calling, in everyday situations, um, practicing spiritual disciplines, and so much more. And so I would encourage you if you have the time, please go back and listen to previous episodes of Tethered. Um, that way, you know, you can be catch up on what's you know what we're about, but also that there would be an encouragement to you as well. So, yeah. But if you've noticed, if you've been around for a while, we're on video now, and so this is exciting. And so that the Lord has definitely provided the means for us to be on video, and so we're so excited that you can join us on video today. And so, what a great way to begin this new season. Which leads me to today's conversation. We're gonna be talking about the attributes of God in this season. And so, but before we actually get into to like the topic today, let me just briefly describe what is an attribute. Uh-huh. It's simply a quality, a character or characteristic ascribed to someone or something, in this case to God. So that's what we're looking at in this season. In reality, there is no way to perfectly describe the nature of God, but theologians have done a great job of helping us understand certain characteristics of him. Um, but we will never fully understand him. And so that's why I think it's important for us to at least look into who he is, because God is indescribable. But we're gonna do the best that we can in this season, and so we're actually gonna be looking at 22 attributes of God in this season. And so I want to thank my friend S. J. Gott Shammer, she was in the previous season, for providing me with a comprehensive list of attributes. It's actually a very, very wonderful list. And so, and I personally became passionate about the attributes of God um a few years ago when I read this book called The Attributes of God by A. W. Pink. Definitely a very good book. The only thing is it was written in the 1900s, like the early 1900s, so it's a little bit hard to read, but once you like get into it, it's actually really wonderful material. So, but with that, I actually want to talk about the first attribute of God, his unchanging nature or immutability. I don't know if I said that right, but yeah, that's what I want to talk about this conversation. So, with that,

Meet Caleb Fain!

SPEAKER_02 3:41

I invited a friend of mine to discuss this with. He is very passionate about this particular attribute of God. So, with that, please help me welcome Caleb Fain. Hello. Hello, how are you doing? Oh, I'm so excited for this. This is fun. That's awesome. Well, we're glad to have you on Tethered. Yeah, for willing to come here. Absolutely. So, Caleb, go ahead and uh yeah, just go ahead and tell us three things about yourself.

SPEAKER_00 4:06

Yeah, so for those of you that don't know me, I also serve uh on staff in college ministry. I don't know if they know that you're in college ministry or not, but they do. So I work with Collegiate Impact, the same campus ministry that Joey's on staff with. Um I am just super passionate about making disciples. I think that the heart of my life and the heart of my ministry as a whole is to make disciples who multiply and make more disciples. And so that's my heartbeat. Um living in Kansas City. Fun fact, I'm Joey's roommate also.

SPEAKER_02 4:38

We are recording from a room right now, actually.

SPEAKER_00 4:40

Yes, we are. So yeah, Joey and I have known each other for about two years, I think. And most of that has been living in a bunk bed, so you know. Literally. So yeah, I'm passionate about making disciples. Um I'm a student at Midwestern Seminary studying for pastoral ministry. So a lot of my time is spent doing discipleship, and when I'm not jogging testify, I'm rolling through Hebrew flashcards. Um, it's kind of my day-to-day right now. And oh, what's one just super fun fact about me? Um I like to play disc golf. Got to play some disc golf a couple weekends ago, and it was really fun.

SPEAKER_02 5:18

Yes, nice. Yeah. That's awesome. Well, Kelly, thank you for introducing yourself and yeah, thank you for willing to come onto the podcast today. We're so excited to have you.

SPEAKER_00 5:28

Glad to be here.

SPEAKER_02 5:29

Alright, with that, let me go ahead and ask you the first question. Okay. So I mentioned it earlier, dear listener. Um this word immuta immutability, what does that word actually mean?

SPEAKER_00 5:43

Yeah, so when you study the doctrine of divine immutability, basically put, it is that God does not change, that he does not experience change in any way. He is constant.

SPEAKER_01 5:54

Hmm.

SPEAKER_02 5:55

Yeah, that's a very simple definition because I just think about what it says in Hebrews that Jesus Christ is the same yesterday, today, and forever. Yeah. And so, yeah, that's a very good way to explain it.

Why is God's unchanging nature important?

SPEAKER_02 6:08

So, why is this particular attribute of God important for someone to understand?

SPEAKER_00 6:13

Yeah, it's a good question. So I think that it doesn't take much for us to see that we live in a society that is constantly changing. Your job may change, your living arrangements may change, your relationship status can change. Everything in your life is subject to change.

What is the immutability of God?

SPEAKER_00 6:29

And with that, I think it comes with it just feels like you're getting whiplashed all over the place. Feels like you're on waves, then all of a sudden it feels like you're in the calm, and then another storm hits, and you're like, How can I possibly stand in this? So I think when we recognize and truly come to understand that God is unchanging, it really helps us ground ourselves in man, everything in my life may change, but I worship and abide in a God who does not. And that, and we're gonna talk about this later, that should be something that gives us hope, gives us peace, gives us the ability to rest.

SPEAKER_02 7:02

That's well said. I think it's just important for us to recognize that because it's so easy to get like caught up in everything. And so you probably saw Caleb holding a grape here. You're probably wondering why do we have grapes? And so, if you probably seen the video of the trailer showing a lot of grapes, this represents the idea of being tethered or you know, abiding. And so we just figure we eat grapes as we record the episode today, but that's just uh I digress on that. But and I like grapes. I do too. Okay, let me ask

Scriptures that reference God's unchanging nature

SPEAKER_02 7:36

you this question, Caleb. Then if if this is if you what you're saying is like it's important us to find rest in God because of his unchanging nature. What are some scripture references to show that God is unchanging?

SPEAKER_00 7:48

Yeah, so there's a lot of scripture we could turn to. I think I have four references we'll look at, and that's not even exhausting, but kind of the first one that is foundational is in Exodus chapter three, and I imagine for many of us, if we know the story of scripture, we're very familiar with this. Exodus chapter three, you have Moses who is um in the wilderness, and he is kind of attracted by this burning bush, and you're like, he's like, what's going on? And I don't have time to get into the whole story, but basically you have this scene where Moses is attracted to this burning bush. Uh God wants Moses to free the people from Egypt, the people of Israel. And when Moses is fearful, when Moses is seeking to be like, Man, I just don't know that I can do this. God says this in verse 15, I am who I am. Right? You see this idea that just like Moses is hearing that this is the very character of God. He is constant, he just is. When we think about immutability, we have to start with just the fact that God is who he is. There is no change. Um, he is the same and has a plan that is the same as well. Another verse that I came up to, uh Psalm 102. So in Psalm 102, the psalmist and right who's writing this is just wrestling with these realities that his enemies seem to be taking over, that all these enemies that are around him are taking over, everything seems to be going wrong, and really he's just wrestling with is God even for me anymore? Is God gonna act? But in Psalm 102, verses 26 and 27, we see this reassurance that God gives him. He says, They will perish, but you will remain. They will all wear out like a garment, you will change them like a robe, and they will pass away. Right? So the psalmist recognizes in the moment that he is struggling with this reality that his enemies are around him, he has this kind of confession of faith that these enemies will perish, these enemies will go away, they will wear out like a garment, but God, you will remain. Right? Like God is not phased by the outside forces or pressures of the enemies. God is um not changing because of the circumstances that the psalmist is facing. Rather, as the psalmist reminds us, he so he shows us that those powers will fade away. Like those enemies will go away. But in the end, God remains. God is constant, he's always there, even when the evil passes away. So just this reminder of like the circumstances in our lives, we're not in application yet, but just like you think of the circumstances in your life, you think of the things that you're wrestling with. It's like all of those things come and go, and in the midst of all those things, God is still remaining. Uh another one, uh, Malachi chapter three, in verse six. This is just the most straightforward verse of this doctrine. I think God literally just says about himself, for I the Lord do not change. Therefore, you, O children of Jacob, are not consumed. Right? God very plainly just spells it out right here. He does not change. It's plainly what the text says. Um, and this would have been hopeful for the Israelites, right? Malachi was prophesying during a time of unfaithfulness on Israel's part. Israel was disobeying God, and at the time it could have been a reminder that God is patient with us, that God is patient with his people, right? Israel was disobedient. God had every right to leave the Israelites to give up on them, but he doesn't. And throughout though the nation of Israel was disobedient, God remains faithful because of his unchanging nature. That verse kind of spells out this idea of like the purposes, the plans of God. Even those are unchanging. Psalm 33, 11, the counsel of the Lord stands forever. The plans of his heart to all generations, because of God's, because God is unchanging, so too are the plans he has for us. And so, you know, the Malachi verse and the Psalms verse, it's like, well, God doesn't change, and so his plan from the get-go is to have a re a relationship with his people. And even if his people disobey, he still wants to pursue them because he doesn't change. Um, just the last verse that we could look at. The New Testament writers, like even some of the New Testament points to this. I think the most obvious one in James, I think it's James 117. I forgot to write the reference down. It says, Do not be deceived, my beloved brothers. Every good gift and every perfect gift is from above, coming down from the Father of lights, with whom there is no variation or shadow due to change. So you think about all the good gifts that God gives us, um, those are all coming from the perfect father, and there is no variation. He is just one. There is no shadow due to change, he is just one. All of these things that we have come from God, and we can be assured, we can be reminded that He will continue to work in our lives, He will continue to bless us because there is no shadow or variation due to change.

SPEAKER_02 13:08

Amen. Thank you for sharing that. That's really encouraging because I think it's just easy for us to forget. Oh, yeah, as believers. Oh yeah, I do that all the time. Yeah, same. Just the fact that we have a God that we worship that is He will never change. He's always constant. He He fulfills His Word. And I know for you know, if you're listening to this, maybe just take some time to reflect on that character of God. Yeah, like He truly is someone that does not change. I I I love what you shared though about um in Exodus where in the burning bush, I mean, Moses. Yeah, I mean, he's re required to take off his sandals in order to approach the burning bush. Yeah. But he presents himself as the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, and he's one that's never changed.

SPEAKER_00 14:02

He's He's the covenant-keeping God.

SPEAKER_02 14:04

Exactly.

SPEAKER_00 14:04

Yeah, and I just I think that's really the important part of keeping with this doctrines, the fancy wherever saying it, but the attribute, this character nature of God is. Man, I know in my own life there have been times where I've really wrestled with my relationship with God in ways of like I've gone through a breakup, I've lost people in my life, I've had to deal with death, and just throughout all of those uncertainties in my life, I always go, like, there have been temptations, and maybe you listener feel this temptation even in your own life, or you can resonate with this, just that, like, man, these bad things are happening. So God must just not be for me anymore. God must be out to get me. Um, and this doctrine has really helped me in my own life just to see, like, even when it seems like God's purposes are changing, it doesn't. And I have to remember that God always has my best interest in mind and his glory ultimately in mind. And if his glory is ultimately for the nations to obey and for his good and people to experience his goodness, sure things will happen. But honestly, like this is such an encouragement when trials come our way. Because it's like when trials come, I can rest in the God who's unchanging.

SPEAKER_02 15:21

Amen, brother. Amen. Well,

Explain why these Scriptures are important

SPEAKER_02 15:25

you kind of alluded to this next question I was gonna ask you. Um, maybe take some time to explain these verses you just shared and share with the others. No why this is important and comforting. Maybe if you want to touch more on that, you can.

SPEAKER_00 15:36

Yeah, I mean, I kind of already touched base on it, so we can for the sake of time, we can maybe move on. But yeah, just to reiterate, like, all of these verses point to the idea that in the midst of life, God ultimately, I think God stayed faithful. That's the kind of key theme I think I see is the faithfulness of God. Especially with some of those Old Testament verses where like Israel is unfaithful or Israel is not trusting in God. Because God made a covenant with Abraham in Genesis 12 that through Abraham nations would be blessed, yeah, he's gonna keep that commandment because he isn't changing. And so then you read throughout the rest of the Old Testament and you see that unravel, and there are so many times I read throughout the Old Testament, and I just think like, man, this would be the time that like if God wanted to pull the plug on this relationship, he would. If God wanted to out a way out of this, he would. Yeah. And I think when I started studying this doctrine, it kind of gave me a framework to think through why God doesn't. Because these verses show us like God is constant, God is the same, God does not change, and therefore his plans for us do not change, his purposes do not change, and therefore his character is that he doesn't change, his desires still for us to be with him, even when we are disobedient to him.

SPEAKER_02 16:57

For sure. Amen. I love that you talked about the Old Testament there, because I've been personally reading through Jeremiah. And one thing that I notice about the character of God, um Yes, he does say that he will be executing his justice on the people of Judah for dis their disobedience to the Lord. But he makes this promise over and over that he will not finish him off and that he has a plan to you know bring him back from exile, to you know, bring them back to the land, that he will be their God, they will be his people. And you just see that this uh unchanging nature of God throughout the Old Testament. Because I know if you probably listen to this, you might think that the Old Testament is just a book that it just showcases like God's anger and wrath, which it does. But if you really hone in and read on it, you get to see hints of his grace, his mercy, his faithfulness, his unchanging nature. So I'm really glad that you brought that up. Okay.

How God's unchanging nature helps one abide in Jesus

SPEAKER_02 18:04

Since this podcast is called Tethered, how does the unchanging nature of God help us understand how he abides in us and us in him? Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 18:15

Well, I just think I've I've already touched on a few of these, but I'll go ahead and kind of swing back around. For starters, I just think it's important to remember that God has a plan for us, God has a plan for our lives, and that plan cannot be changed. Um, you know, when we see the unchanging nature of God, we don't need to wonder if God is for us. We don't need to wonder whether or not He is gonna give up on us one day. He literally, by His nature, cannot. He can't give up on us. He will always be for us. So we can remember that. And we can always come to God for refuge, right? Throughout the Psalms, you see this image, this divine image of God being our refuge, God being our fortress. Um, and when we go through seasons of doubt, and I'm I say we as in like you and I, you may be listening to this today, and I list these things off, and you're like, that's me today. Doubt, worry, depression, season of anxiety, season of struggle, financially, physically, whatever it is, we can remember that because of God's unchanging nature, we can always go to Him. I've been reading a book um with my church staff called Um A Praying Life. And in the first part, I've been thinking about this a lot. In the first part, it talks about coming to God like a child. And I think we don't get that so often in our own lives. I know I don't. I miss the idea that I have un basically unbroken access to God whenever he needs me. Um God won't change his mind about us, so we can always come back to him and he'll always welcome us with open arms, right? He is the rock on which we can stand. And I just think when you get that image of like a rock, a fortress, like this thing that is impenetrable, it's unfading, it will not break, it will not break, it will not crumble, and that's a fortress that I can really remember and that I can really trust in. Um ultimately, though, because God is immutable, so are his promises. So when you read through the Bible and you see God making promises, and the Bible has like shown this, he's unable to break those promises. Like, there's never a promise God makes that he won't keep. So as believers, like we can cling to the promises of God that we read about in scripture and know that those are there. We don't want to read ourselves into the texts, but I think it's safe to say, like, those are promises mostly for us too. Not every one of them, but that's a different conversation. For sure. Like, but pretty generally, you read a promise about like, you know, God says, I will not leave you nor forsake you. Like, that's a promise I can cling to today. Because he made that promise to the Israelites, and that promise is the same for me that God will not leave me, that God will not forsake me. And this, those are the things that will never be gone, they'll never be revoked.

SPEAKER_02 21:13

That's good. Wow. That's encouraging. I'm sure there's someone listening or watching this that needs to hear that. Because I like what you said about the unbroken access to God. I don't even know if that's a word, but uh we're making it a word. We are making it a word. But unbroken access to God. Yeah. I just think about that. It's we have this access that it talks about in Hebrews that you know we have this great high priest who has pastor to heavens, we can come to him boldly with confidence. Yeah. Approach that throne. And that's something that is unchanging about God. Like we can go to him.

SPEAKER_00 21:54

And when you understand that it changes how you pray, it changes how you worship, it changes how you think. If you're not familiar with the verse Joey talked about, just look up Hebrews four and read that and it talks about because Jesus has went through the heavens, basically meaning because Jesus died on the cross and rose again for us, we have unbroken access. Un There's a word there, but I don't even think we can find the word. It's just like constant, 24-7 access to God.

SPEAKER_02 22:27

Would you say like abiding would be a good word?

SPEAKER_00 22:30

I mean yes to define in in general, yes. I'm looking for like the the word to define the access with the UN in front of it. But yes, the abiding is exactly what we're talking about then. Exactly. It's like you can abide in Christ constantly because of that.

SPEAKER_02 22:45

Amen. Amen. Well, here's

The Gospel in God's unchanging nature

SPEAKER_02 22:48

my next question because you talked about this unbroken access to God, but we are naturally broken people.

SPEAKER_00 22:56

Oh yeah.

SPEAKER_02 22:57

So I want to ask you this. Where do we see the gospel in the unchanging nature of God?

SPEAKER_00 23:04

Yeah, that's a good question. I think when we understand the unbroken access, like you said, we have to get to the point of like first why we're broken. So I just want to say for a second, and you're not gonna get on to me, I know you won't, like, just if you're listening to this and you don't know what we're talking about, the gospel is just the good news that God created you to be with him. God has always been, again, because of his unchanging nature, he's always existed, he's never not been. And one day he said, I want to create, and I want to create people, and I want to have a relationship with man. And you look around and you go, Well, that's not the relationship that I have with God. That's not what I see in the world, and that's because sin entered the world, and we've sinned, and our sin separates us from him. And so no matter what we try to do, we're not able to gain that back. So Jesus, the second person in the Trinity, God Himself, in the form of Jesus, comes down from heaven, assumes humanity, puts on or takes the form of a man, died on the cross so that we could be saved. And now he lives with us, and we live with him if we're following Jesus and we're abiding in him. So you get this idea that God's faithfulness in pursuing a relationship with us, that's where you see the unchanging nature of God. Like all of creation in the gospel starts with the fact that God wants a relationship with us. God wants a relationship with you and I. In Genesis 1 and 2, before sin even enters the world, that's what we see. Genesis 3 throws all of that for a loop with Adam and Eve sinning and sin entering the world, and then us inheriting sin through that and ourselves becoming sinners. And even in the midst of that, God's faithfulness to pursue a relationship with us still. And so much so that his plan was to send Jesus to die for us. And Jesus always knew that the cross was the way to save us. He always knew that he always knew that the way for us to be made right with God was a sacrifice, his sacrifice, and he willingly chose that. He always wanted a relationship with us and showed that in sending his son to die on the cross, that he would do whatever it took to have that relationship with us, and that that was always the plan.

SPEAKER_02 25:30

Amen. Amen. That's that's good. That's a good word. Just important to be reminded of that because God will always keep his promises, but also at the same time, like we get an opportunity to come to him that he wants to have a relationship with us. That's something he's always wanted.

SPEAKER_00 25:52

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 25:53

And that's so comforting, especially it's it's you know, that that's unchanging. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 25:58

Like I think about the idea that the real the hand of relationship is extended to God from God to us, and he'll never pull it back.

SPEAKER_02 26:07

I just think about John 637 where it says, All that the Father has given to me will come to me, and he who comes to me I will never cast out. Yeah. I just think of that. You know, that's something that Jesus Himself promises. Like that will not change. Yeah. And so the listener or someone who's watching, pay attention to that. The Lord, He will not let you go if you truly place your faith and trust in Him for the forgiveness of sin, but also for your redemption. And then calling on Him, His name alone as Lord. And so I appreciate you sharing that, brother. Yeah. And

Practical ways to grow in understanding God's unchanging nature

SPEAKER_02 26:45

here's my last question for you, Caleb, before we wrap up here. What are some practical ways for a person to grow in their understanding of the unchanging nature of God? Maybe like, you know, if you're a young adult that's listening to this sort of college student, like what would like what would you say to them on that?

SPEAKER_00 27:01

I just have two things. Um I think the first thing is just you know, reading scripture for yourself, which I know in the past I believe you've had episodes on spiritual disciplines, correct? Yes. Yeah, so you know, reading the Bible for yourself, scripture intake. There are episodes done in the past on that. And just maybe even an exercise would just be as you're reading scripture, whether it's with a journal out or not, just take note of the promises and the actions that God does. When God makes a promise, you will nowhere in scripture find him going back on that promise. Matter of fact, when God makes a promise, most of the time you will find that that promise is fulfilled and finished in Jesus. That promise is kept. So just look to how look to the character of God as you read through scripture and see how God keeps his promises throughout all the canon, throughout all of canon just means like the scriptures, the books of the Bible that we have. Um, but just throughout the story of the Bible, you see God always making promises and always keeping them. So just maybe take time as you're reading through the word to take note of that and ask, like, oh yeah, God made a God made this promise. And he always keeps that. And then you just start seeing so many promises in the Bible that, like I said earlier, are also promises that we see him extending to us today. And as you look to how God constantly pursues a relationship with his people, right? That's the biggest part of that. You look throughout the Old Testament into the New Testament, and you see the story of God constantly pursuing us, even when we run away from him. Um, he welcomes us when we come back. And so you just see, again, through reading scripture, just how God never makes promises and then goes back on them. And then I just think the second one is think about how God has been faithful in your own life. Think about things that you've prayed for, look back and see how God has answered those. Um, what has God blessed you with? Right? What has God been giving to you? He is totally for you and will always be. Think about the blessings that you have that come from God. Think about the things that He has brought you through when you think about difficult times in your life. Remember that it's God who brought you through those difficult times. And just always be meditating on that.

SPEAKER_02 29:23

Amen. That's some really practical wisdom from you, um, from you, Caleb. Really appreciate you sharing that. And very easy to do too, because if you open up the scriptures, I mean that's how you hear from God. I heard someone once say, Jared Wilson, actually say this that if you read your Bible, it's like you're hearing hearing God audibly. And it's just comforting the fact that we can just go to him in that way and just be able to look back as well, like you said, to reflect on what God has done. It just showcases that he is unchanging it. So I really appreciate you sharing that with the listener or the watcher. And so, thank you, brother, for everything for what you had to share. For that, that's

Final thoughts

SPEAKER_02 30:08

pretty much all we have for you today, dear listener or watcher. And so, any final thoughts that you want to share with uh anyone that's listening or watching this?

SPEAKER_00 30:16

Yeah, just um a reminder that even when it feels like God is not for you, the doctrine of mutability of immutability, the character of God is that he is for you. And that because he cannot change, you can take rest in that. Even when it feels hard to believe, let when it feels hard to remember and believe that God is for you, let this doctrine remind you that he is intellectually, even when it's impossible to feel it.

Episode Conclusion

SPEAKER_02 30:50

And then well, thank you so much, Caleb, for coming onto the podcast today. It was really great to hear from you and just to hear about the unchanging nature of God, and that's just something for you to remember, dear listener, person watching this, that God is unchanging. And so thank you again for sharing that with us. And so, with that, um, that wraps up the episode for today. So, thank you for tuning into Tethered. Uh, please subscribe on your favorite app. We're on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, YouTube Music, Amazon, and then of course, now on YouTube in video format. So please subscribe, please like the video if you enjoyed watching this content, and please share it with those that you know that need to hear something like this. And so, thank you so much. Have a wonderful day, God bless. And then when we can be looking at the next episode, we're looking at God is eternal. And so, thank you so much. God bless.